The Imprecise Use of “Elders” in the New Testament and the Presbyterai of 1 Timothy 5:2
In my previous post, I stated that women elders are mentioned in 1 Timothy and I suggested the likelihood that Priscilla was one of them. In this longer post, I look at verses in 1 Timothy where the Greek word for “elder/s” occurs, and I compare 1 Timothy 5:1–2 with verses found in 1 Peter, in 1 Clement, in Acts, and in Titus. Hopefully, this gives us a better understanding of the context and meaning of “elders” in 1 Timothy 5:1–2. I also look briefly at elders, both men and women, in early Judaism. There are two aims in this article: (1) to show that “elders” was an imprecise term in the first century, and (2) to show that some elders were women.
Presbyteroi in the New Testament
The Greek word used for “elders” in the New Testament is the adjective presbyteroi.[1] This word is used many times in the New Testament for Jewish elders (especially those in Jerusalem), about a dozen times for church elders, and a few times for “older” people. Then there are the twenty-four elders mentioned in the book of Revelation who I won’t be discussing in this article. (I have a long note on these elders in a comment at the bottom of an article here.) In all, presbyteroi occurs sixty-six times in the New Testament and frequently occurs as a collective term in the plural. (The masculine singular is presbyteros.)
In First Timothy, the Greek word for elder/s occurs only in the fifth chapter (1 Tim. 5:1, 2, 17, and 19): a feminine form referring to women, presbyterai, occurs in verse 2; masculine (plural and singular) forms occur in verses 1, 17 and 19.
It’s important to note that masculine Greek words that describe people do not necessarily exclude women. For example, the Greek adjective leproi (“lepers”) is masculine; context tells us whether the lepers mentioned in a given text are men only (e.g., Luke 17:12) or potentially both men and women (e.g., Luke 4:27).[2] On the other hand, feminine words (articles, nouns, adjectives, participles) that describe people, typically refer to women only.
Presbyteroi in 1 Timothy 5:1–2
First Timothy is a letter addressed to Timothy who was ministering in Ephesus, a city on the West Coast of Asia Minor. In the opening verses of chapter 5, Paul tells Timothy:
Don’t rebuke an older man (or elder) (presbyteros), but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women (or women elders) (presbyterai) as mothers, and the younger women as sisters with all purity (1 Tim. 5:1–2).
At first glance, it seems that Paul is simply categorising the congregation into four groups based on age and sex, and that elders as church leaders or ministers is not the sense intended.
Nevertheless, some older translations of 1 Timothy 5:1 use the word “elder.” For example, the KJV has “Rebuke not an elder.” Some older translations of 1 Timothy 5:2 use the words “elder women.” We need to recognise, however, that “elder” is a synonym for “older.” Presbyteroi in its most basic sense simply refers to older adults. This basic sense of old age underlies all occurrences of presbyteroi in the New Testament.
The presbyterai in 1 Timothy 5:2 may have been more than just “older women.” This becomes apparent when we realise that the juxtaposing of elders with young adults happens in other passages where elders are mentioned in the context of ministry and leadership. These passages are 1 Peter 5:1–5, verses in 1 Clement, and Acts 2:17–18.
Presbyteroi in 1 Peter 5:1–5
First Peter is a letter addressed to Christians living in various regions of Asia Minor (1 Pet. 1:1). In the first few verses of chapter 5 of this letter, Peter identifies himself as a “fellow-elder” and he gives instructions to presbyteroi, that is, elders.[3] He tells them to act as shepherds (pastors): to watch over and care for the flock and be examples (1 Pet. 5:1–4; cf. Acts 20:28). (While it is not apparent in some English translations, this passage in the Greek gives no indication that the elders are only men.)
As soon as Peter finishes giving instructions to the elders, he instructs the young adults (1 Pet. 5:5 NKJV). These two groups are not further divided according to gender, and there are no alternative groups addressed here (other than the elders and young people) so women may be included in both groups.
Like 1 Timothy 5:1–2, there are only two age groups addressed in 1 Peter 5:1–5. This is because, at that time, the adult population was predominantly made up of only two generations.[4] Roughly speaking, an older adult was over 35–40 years of age and a young adult was under 35-40.
In 1 Peter 5, presbyteroi are older adults charged with pastoral responsibilities. This may have been the case for the elders in 1 Clement, also.
Presbyteroi in 1 Clement
1 Clement is a work written around AD 90–100 AD and has been included in a collection of early Christian writings known as the Apostolic Fathers. It was written by the Roman church to the Corinthian church when the Romans learned that some of the younger Corinthians had deposed the leadership made up of older men. Because of this situation, the juxtaposition of older and younger adults makes good sense.
I’ve included the three verses in 1 Clement where presbyteroi and young adults (neoi) occur side by side, along with brief comments, in footnote 5 below.[5] In two of these verses, elders are mentioned alongside leaders (hegoumenoi). At least some of these elders would have been leaders, but not all. Still, all elders, whether they were church leaders or not, were to be honoured (1 Clem 1:3; 3:3; 21:6; cf. 1 Tim. 5:1–2).
Unlike, 1 Timothy 5:1–2 and 1 Peter 5:1–5, it is reasonably clear that women were not included among these elders in Corinth. Rather, women are mentioned in a distinct group; women are “others” in 1 Clement.
Presbyteroi in Acts 2:17
Presbyteroi are mentioned several times in the book of Acts, including Acts 2:17b. In this verse young and old are also mentioned side by side: “And your young people will see visions and your presbyteroi will dream dreams.” This statement does not specify gender, but it is sandwiched between other statements that do specify gender: “… I will pour out my Spirit on all people, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy” (Acts 2:17a). And: “Even upon both my male servants and upon my female servants, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy (Acts 2:18). The structure of the passage indicates that presbyteroi in verse 17 include women.
Acts 2:17–18 is an “inclusive” passage. Unlike other passages that make a distinction between elders and young adults, Acts 2:17b minimises a distinction based on age difference (cf. 1 Tim. 4:12). And Acts 2:17–18 makes no distinction on the basis of sex. Rather, these verses, and others in the New Testament, show that the Holy Spirit empowers men and women, young and old, to minister, to prophecy, to instruct, and to lead (e.g., 1 Cor. 12:11; 14:26; Col. 3:16). Every New Testament verse about ministry gifts and abilities is gender-inclusive.[6]
Elders have the advantage of experience and maturity. It is this maturity that makes some elders suitable to lead congregations. A person’s gender, however, neither qualifies nor disqualifies someone to minister and lead in the body of Christ.
Presbyteroi in 1 Timothy 5:17–19 and Titus 1:5
We now come back to 1 Timothy 5. After mentioning male and female presbyteroi in the opening verses of chapter 5, Paul refers to presbyteroi again in verses 17 and 19.
Elders (presbyteroi) who lead/ provide (proistēmi) well should be paid (timē) double, especially those who toil in the word and teaching. … Don’t accept an accusation made against an elder (presbyteros) unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses. 1 Timothy 5:17, 19
The elders in verse 17 are specifically identified as those who lead and care for congregations.[7] This indicates that not all elders were leaders (or, that not all elders lead well) and that only some were speakers and teachers. Furthermore, these elders who lead and care well are worthy of being paid well. I take the Greek word timē to refer to “price” (i.e. financial support) rather than “honour” (cf. the related verb in 1 Tim. 5:3 in the context of support for widows). Elsewhere, Paul cautions about assigning honour to people who already have it (cf. 1 Cor. 12:21–25).
The presbyteroi in 5:17–19 are a subset of those mentioned previously in 5:1–2. And verse 19 is reminiscent of 5:1–2 in that elders should be treated well. These earlier verses may refer to all older members of the church at Ephesus and not just elders who lead.[8]
As well as occurring four times in 1 Timothy 5, presbyteroi occurs once in Titus, in Titus 1:5. These elders of the church in Crete were undoubtedly appointed leaders (Tit. 1:5 cf. Acts 14:23). The Greek text of the moral qualifications for these elders does not indicate that they must be men. Moreover, the male and female presbytai mentioned in Titus 2:2-3 may be appointed elders.[9] No verse in the Greek New Testament states church elders must only be men.
The word presbyteroi does not occur at all in any of the earlier and undisputed letters of Paul, not once. It was not a word the apostle usually used for church leaders or ministers. Moreover, in none of the Pauline letters is a specific or named individual called an elder. As I stated in the previous article, the ministry terms Paul used most often were coworker, minister/ deacon (diakonos), apostle/ missionary (apostolos), and labourer, descriptions he used for both his male and female ministry colleagues. These terms denote function rather than an official position or an ecclesial hierarchy.
Almost all the first converts to Christianity were Jews or Jewish proselytes who belonged to synagogues. And some synagogues practices carried over into church life. Perhaps Paul, with his inclusive views on ministry and his aversion to Judaisers, avoided the word presbyteroi because of the way it was used in Judaism.
Presbyteroi in Early Judaism
In the New Testament, presbyteroi is an imprecise term. It is believed the church adopted it from Judaism, but in ancient Judaism it was also an imprecise term with a combined sense of both seniority and leadership.
R. Alistair Campbell writes,
Jewish writers of the Second Temple period (including New Testament writers when they refer to the Jewish leaders) display a notable lack of precision in the use of the term ‘elders’, usually linking it with other terms [such as chief priests and scribes (e.g., Mark 14:53)] to reinforce the impression that the whole leadership was involved. Elders, we may say, are those who have presbeion [seniority], rather than the holders of an office of eldership at either national or local level.[10]
And,
It is possible to say that while [Jewish] congregations gave precedence to persons of seniority, and used the term ‘the elders’ to refer to them, there does not seem to have been an office of elder as such to which a person might be appointed and with clearly defined functions…. An elder did not hold an office in the way that the archisynagōgos [ruler of the synagogue] did.[11]
Jewish elders were people with seniority, and the Jewish elders mentioned in the Gospels and in some passages in Acts, were all men. Most of the church elders mentioned in Acts, particularly those in Jerusalem, would have been all men too.
. . . the formation of a body of [church] elders first after the synagogue model, then probably in connection with the decree [of Acts 15] with the same claim as the Sanhedrin, belongs only to the period of increasing Judaising of the primitive community under James, after the departure of Peter. There is a very clear picture of [the council of elders in Jerusalem] in Acts 21:17–26.[12]
The Jewish elders and the church elders based in Jerusalem were men.[13] (It is also likely that James had male elders in mind when he mentioned them in James 5:14.) However, outside of Jerusalem things were different, especially in parts of Asia Minor.
Presbyterai (Women Elders) in Early Judaism
Ancient inscriptions have survived that mention Jewish women in prominent roles in synagogues. (See here for example.) Presently, seven epitaphs of women elders and four epitaphs of women synagogue leaders have been discovered. Several more epitaphs exist of Jewish women with other leadership titles.[14] One woman, Sophia of Gortyn, whose inscription was found in Crete, was both an elder (presbytera) and a leader of a synagogue (archisynagōgissa).[15]
These inscriptions are sometimes interpreted as referring to wives of elders or of synagogue leaders, that is, they are honorary rather than functional titles. Paul Trebilco and others, however, argue that many of the twenty-one Jewish women commemorated in the various inscriptions were actual elders and leaders of synagogues.
Trebilco has written about the prominence of women in the synagogues of Asia Minor and notes that they had “a significant degree of involvement and leadership in synagogue life…”[16] (As well as inscriptions which mention women leaders, inscriptions reveal that about 36 per cent of donations to synagogue buildings were made by wealthy female patrons.)[17] Trebilco further notes that the phenomenon of female leadership “is most noticeable on the West Coast, especially in Caria and Ionia . . . . In these two regions . . . women’s leadership in the city was the most noticeable and the most widespread.”[18]
Map showing the regions of Ionia (and Ephesus) and Caria on the West Coast of Asia Minor.
In parts of the Roman world, such as Asia Minor, Jewish and Christian women were prominent in their synagogues and churches, especially in the regions of Ionia and Caria in Asia Minor. The synagogues and churches of Ephesus and Smyrna were located in Ionia.[19] And we know that women, such as Priscilla, were ministering in these churches.[20] (I discuss the ministries of Alke and Gavia of Smyrna, here.)
1 Timothy 4:14 tells us that the presbyterion (“council, or group, of elders”) had laid hands on young Timothy. Does this refer to the elders in Jerusalem? Or does it refer to the elders in the Ephesian church, those mentioned in 1 Timothy 5? Were Priscilla and Aquila two of the elders who had laid hands on Timothy?
Since there seemed to have been no problem with Priscilla and Aquila correcting the teacher Apollos when he was in Ephesus (surely a role of elders), and since Priscilla and Aquila were house church leaders in Ephesus, I see no reason why Priscilla, or women like Priscilla, should be excluded from the group of elders in the Ephesian church. The fact remains, however, that we do not know the names of any elders in the New Testament church apart from Peter and John.[21]
I’ve written about women elders mentioned in ancient Christian documents and inscriptions in this three-part article here.
Conclusion
This article and the preceding one were inspired by questions and statements regarding elders. Behind these questions and statements is the idea that women were not elders in New Testament times and so they shouldn’t be elders in churches today, even though church life today is vastly different to that of the first century.
The fact is that the feminine of presbyteroi (“elders”) does occur in the New Testament, and it occurs in other ancient Jewish and Christian writings and inscriptions where it refers to woman elders.
Using New Testament elders as a precedent for either allowing or disallowing women to be elders today is fraught with difficulties, as “in the Jewish and Christian sphere it is often hard to distinguish between the designation of age and the title of an office,”[22] assuming there were even church offices before the end of the first century.[23] While presbyteroi (“elders”) was a general and “vague” term in the first century,[24] I maintain that there were presbyterai (“women elders”) in New Testament churches. 1 Timothy 5:2 tells us this was the case.
Footnotes
[1] Presbyteroi (presbyteros is the nominative singular form) is a comparative adjective; it literally refers to people who are old-er. While presbyteroi is technically an adjective, it often functions as a substantive in the New Testament, that is, it functions as a noun.
[2] Similarly, the noun adelphoi is masculine but in New Testament verses that refer to both men and women adelphoi is rendered “brothers and sisters” in modern translations. (I’ve written about adelphoi used inclusively, especially in Paul’s letters, here.)
[3] A definite article is not used, in the Greek, with presbyteroi in 1 Peter 5:1 or 5:5. So a defined group of official elders may not be the case here. A definite article is also not used with the comparative adjective neōteroi (“younger adults”) in 1 Peter 5:5.
Definite articles are used with every occurrence of presbyteroi in 1 Clement 1:3; 3:3; 21:6: 44:5; 54:2; 57:1. However, neoi also occurs with a definite article in 3:3 and 21:6. Nevertheless, context unambiguously shows that “the elders” mentioned in 1 Clement 44:5: 54:2 and 57:1 are appointed office bearers, even if those, or some of those, in previous chapters are not.
Both presbyteroi and neaniskoi in Acts 2:17 occur with a definite article.
Definite articles are not used with presbyteros and presbyterai in 1 Timothy 5:1–2 and 5:19, but presbyteroi (“the elders”) in 5:17 does have a definite article. The comparative adjectives translated as “younger men” and “younger women” in 1 Timothy 5:1–2 likewise occur without a definite article.
[4] See John M. G. Barclay, “There Is Neither Old nor Young? Early Christianity and Ancient Ideologies of Age,” New Testament Studies 53.2 (2007), 225–241.
[5] 1 Clement 1:3: “For you did everything without partiality . . . submitting yourselves to your leaders (hegoumenoi) and giving to the presbyteroi among you the honour due to them. You instructed the young people to think temperate and proper thoughts . . .” The presbyteroi may refer to leaders and not just older people here. Women (or wives) are not included among the presbyteroi as they are mentioned next in 1 Clement 1:3 without reference to age.
1 Clement 3:3: “So people were stirred up: those without honour against the honoured, those of no repute against the highly reputed, the foolish against the wise, the young against the presbyteroi.” By implication, the presbyteroi are the honoured, the highly reputed and the wise.
1 Clement 21:6: “Let us respect our leaders (hegoumenoi); let us honour the presbyteroi; let us instruct the young . . .” As in 1 Clement 1:3, women, and then children, are mentioned next, and are not included among the presbyteroi. Frederick Danker suggests a double meaning of leader and older adult in these three verses from 1 Clement, but that the concept of being old is the dominant meaning in 1 Clement 3:3 and 21:6. Walter Bauer, “πρεσβύτερος, α, ον”, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, ed. Frederick W. Danker. 3rd edition (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 862.
The English translations of 1 Clement 1:6; 3:3; and 21:6 are adapted from Michael Holmes’ translation in The Apostolic Father: Greek Texts and English Translations (Grand Rapids: Baker Academics, 2007)
[6] Every New Testament verse that speaks of spiritual gifts, manifestations, or ministries is completely free of any gender bias in the Greek. (See Acts 2:17–18; Rom. 12:6–8; 1 Cor. 12:7–11 & 27–28; 1 Cor. 14:26–40; Eph. 4:11–12; Heb. 2:4; 1 Pet. 4:9–11).
[7] Some translations have “rule” instead of “lead.” The Greek participle here is from the verb proistēmi, a word that occurs eight times in the New Testament. Proistēmi in the New Testament “seems to have the sense a. ‘to lead’ but the context shows in each case that one must also take into account sense b. ‘to take care of’. This is explained by the fact that caring was an obligation of leading members of the infant Church.”
Bo Reike, “Proistēmi ”, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Vol. 6, ed. Gerhard Friedrich, transl. and ed. Geoffrey Bromiley (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1968), 701–703, 701.
Phoebe of Cenchrea is referred to with the cognate noun of proistēmi in Romans 16:2: she was a patron and protector of many in the church, including Paul.
[8] The letters of 1 Clement and 1 Timothy reveal a similar tension. In 1 Clement there is hubris among the young. In 1 Timothy this quarrelsome arrogance is evident among the rich.
[9] The pertinent words in Titus 2:2–3 are the plural of the nouns presbytēs (masculine) (cf. Luke 1:18: Philem. 1:9) and presbytis (feminine). These words are, however, slightly different from the comparative adjective presbyteroi. The actual forms in Titus 2:2–3 are presbytas (accusative masculine plural) meaning “old/senior men,” and presbytidas (accusative feminine plural) meaning “old/senior women.”
The training that the elder women were to give to the young wives of Crete was typical of the advice Greco-Roman women gave to younger women, whether Christian or pagan. There is nothing especially “Christian,” theological, or doctrinal in the instructions in Titus 2:4–5. (Compare Titus 2:4–5 with, for example, the letters of Theano II to three young women.) However, this instruction to young women was a countermeasure to Jewish myths and man-made rules that encouraged asceticism (Tit. 1:14–15). (More about Titus 2:4–5 and women’s roles, here.)
The fact that Paul used different Greek words for male and female elder people in Titus 2:2–3 than in 1 Timothy, and elsewhere in the New Testament, may make his use of male and female “elders” more marked in 1 Timothy 5:1–2. Unfortunately, this difference in language is unmarked in most English translations of these verses. However, the same word for the elder women in Titus 2 is used in the Canons of Laodicea for women who are more clearly church leaders. (I quote from these Canons in part 1 here.) And it is used for women elders (or, presbyteresses) in some early Christian texts. (See here.)
[10] R. Alistair Campbell, The Elders: Seniority within Earliest Christianity (London: T&T Clark 1994, 2004), 238. (A five-page summary of Campbell’s thesis on elders was published in The Tyndale Bulletin 44.1 (1993): 183–187, here.)
[11] Campbell, The Elders, 238-239.
[12] Gunther Bornkamm, “Presbys, Presbyteros …” Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Vol. 6, ed. Gerhard Friedrich, transl. and ed. Geoffrey Bromiley (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1968), 663.
[13] The council of church elders in Jerusalem only lasted a generation. It ceased to exist when Jerusalem fell to the Romans in AD 70, if not before.
[14] Note that these inscriptions date from around the second century BC to the sixth century AD. Sophia of Gortyn’s inscription dates to the fifth century AD.
[15] The information in this paragraph was sourced from Ross Shepard Kraemer, Women’s Religions in the Greco-Roman World: A Sourcebook (New York: Oxford University Press, 2004), 251–255.
[16] Paul Trebilco, Jewish Communities in Asia Minor (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1991, 2006), 111. See especially chapter 5, “The Prominence of Women in Asia Minor”, 104–125.
[17] Trebilco, Jewish Communities, 112.
[18] Trebilco, Jewish Communities, 124–125.
[19] A second-century CE inscription from Smyrna mentions a woman named Rufina who was a synagogue ruler. The inscription reads: “Rufina, a Jewess synagogue ruler [archisynagōgos], built this tomb for her freed slaves and the slaves raised in her household. No one else has a right to bury anyone here.” (CII 741; IGR IV. 1452)
See Bernadette J. Brooten, Women Leaders in the Ancient Synagogue: Inscriptional Evidence and Background. Brown Judaic Studies, 36. (Chico, CA: Scholars Press, 1982).
[20] The city of Philadelphia is also located in Ionia. A famous Christian prophetess named Ammia lived in Philadelphia (circa AD 100) and is mentioned in the Church History of Eusebius (5.17.3)
[21] It is disputed that the author of 2 and 3 John was an official elder. For example, Gunther Bornkamm asserts, “the title presbyteros in 2 John 1 and 3 John 1 can be integrated into neither an episcopal nor presbyterian form of government. The elder … works outside any ecclesiastical constitution.” “presbys, presbyteros …” (TDNT, Vol. 6), 671.
In his Church History 3.39.1–7, Eusebius mentions John the Elder, as well as the names of some of the Twelve, and records that Papias seems to have used the word presbyteroi for Christians who were immediate followers of Jesus and for “those early Christian leaders who had known the immediate followers of Jesus—leaders of the second Christian generation.” F.F. Bruce, Men and Movements in the Primitive Church (Exeter: Paternoster Press, 1979), 134. Presbyteroi may not mean that these sought-after Christians held the office of elder in local churches. (See more in Fragments of Papias on the Early Christian Writings website. )
[22] Gunther Bornkamm, “presbys, presbyteros …”, (TDNT, Abridged), 932.
[23] Ignatius presumes that the churches he writes to were using a hierarchical governmental structure, with one bishop (episkopos) supported by at least two elders (presbyteroi) and at least one deacon. This tiered structure, however, is not apparent in the second-century church in Corinth (as per 1 Clement and the Apocryphal Corinthian Correspondence) or in the church at Smyrna (as per Polycarp’s letter to the Philippians). Polycarp, leader of the church at Smyrna, identifies himself as being among the elders, and mentions elders and deacons in the church at Philippi, but not bishops (episkopoi) (contra. Phil. 1:1).
[24] G. W. H. Lampe states that early Christian writers “most often used presbyteros in a vague sense” and that the word “may be applied to an apostle, a member of the college of episkopoi, a ‘monarchical’ bishop, a teacher, an early Christian witness to tradition, or any respected member of the Church; it is difficult to distinguish between this general use of presbyteros and its more technical use to denote a member of a particular ministerial order …” A Patristic Greek Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1961, 1968), 1129–1130.
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Explore more
Were there women elders in New Testament churches? (part 1)
Women Elders in Ancient Christian Texts
The Holy Spirit and Equality in Acts
The Means of Ministry: Gifts, Grace, Faith … Gender?
The Church in Smyrna and Her Women
The Prominence of Women in the Cults of Ephesus
The Twelve Apostles were all Male
Mutual Submission in Ephesians 5:21 and 1 Peter 5:5
My articles on 1 Clement are here.
35 thoughts on “Were there women elders in New Testament churches? (Part 2)”
Again, and as always, just a marvelous post! PTL
Thanks, Ray.
I f you choose to exclude I TIMOTHY THREE your post contains YOUR TRUTH, if you include it, it contains God’s biblical truth.
The woman cannot be THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, can she? I TIMOTHY 3. She cannot be a man/Elder that rules his family well, right? Are you twisting scripture to suit your FEMINIST THEOLOGY, rather than treating God’s word with reverence and inerrancy it deserves?
The Holy Spirit also led the Apostle to declare: Let the women be silent in church. If a woman wants to know more about scripture, she should ask her husband.
I believe any Elder is unable to perform the work of an Elder and remain silent.
The New Testament does include women as Church Deaconess.
Ranny, As the introduction and subtitles clearly indicate, this article is on the Greek word for presbyteros (“elder”). Presbyteros does not occur in any form in 1 Timothy 3.
My articles on 1 Timothy 3 are here: https://margmowczko.com/category/1-timothy-3/
I’m very familiar with 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. Paul, in fact, silences three groups of people in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, not just women who wanted to learn but needed to keep their questions for home.
Paul was silencing unruly and unedifying speech in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, while at the same time encouraging orderly and edifying ministry. And he did not tell the Corinthian women who were praying and prophesying to be silent, but to have appropriate hairstyles or head coverings while they were praying and prophesying (1 Cor. 11:5).
My articles on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 are here: https://margmowczko.com/category/1-corinthians-1434-35/
This is interesting, but really what is the fuss about? In underground churches today / right now women are in leadership roles mainly because the males have been arrested and sent to prison camps (Yes, women get arrested too). Anyway, both the men and women of the underground church teach, memorize scripture, worship together,and travel into hostile areas to feed the flock the gospel get arrested/ killed, etc. . .The underground church in North Korea is just one good example of men and women, young and old work together in unity to teach and preserve the gospel.
I completely agree. What is the fuss?
I’m annoyed and dismayed when people get caught up with words in efforts to limit women. But this is what frequently happens.
These two posts on women elders were written in response to earnest and presumably well-meaning Christians who unequivocally state that women can’t be elders, etc. Even though there’s no evidence for such a statement.
Right from the very beginning of Christianity women have been arrested, imprisoned, and even tortured and killed for their faith (e.g., Acts 8:3; Rom. 16:6). And it still happens today, all the time. Heaven help them!
Thanks for your comment, Alison. We all need to work together and use our collective gifts for the sake of the gospel, with no artificially imposed limits.
Dear Marg,
thank you so much for your great articles, I really enjoy reading them. I have a question concerning the verse following Titus 1,5 where it says “if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,…” I know many people who say this implies that the elders mentioned before have to be men, because it talks about husbands. What do you think about that?
Best regards, Christina
Hi Christina,
The Greek phrase literally translated as “one-woman-man” or “one-man-woman” was a common idiom and meant “married only once”. The NRSV accurately conveys this meaning in 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; 5:9; and Titus 1:5.
I’ve written about this idiom in this article: https://margmowczko.com/equality-and-gender-issues/pauls-qualifications-for-church-leaders/. Please look at endnotes 3 and 6 too.
It’s use in Titus 1:5 (and 1 Tim. 3:2) does not necessarily exclude women. Even some top complementarian scholars, Douglas Moo and Thomas Schreiner, acknowledge this.
Thanks so much – your blog is a rich source of well-researched and empowering information. May we all serve to the best of our abilities and giftings regardless of our gender, ethnicity, age or social status.
Thanks, Miriam. And, amen!
Hi Marg,
I love the depth you have worked things through, and the ‘tone’ of your writing and engagement with others. I’ve enjoyed and learned much by reading some of your posts. Thankyou!
If you have time, I am wondering what you make of Acts 20:30 in the context of this discussion. Ought it be used to suggest that the pattern of eldership as an appointed office (Acts 14:23, Titus 1) in the (very early) church, was male?
Hi Chris,
There is no doubt that most church leaders in very early churches were male, especially in Jerusalem and Antioch. But this changes as we go north and west. (Sadly, we don’t have information for churches east and south of Jerusalem.) Women were functioning as leaders in prominent ministries in the churches in Philippi, Corinth, and Rome, etc.
There was not one pattern of ministry or one model for leadership in first-century churches. And Paul was flexible and fluid with his use of ministry terminology. He often uses several terms to describe a minister (e.g., Timothy, Epaphroditus, Phoebe). But he never refers to a named Christian as an elder or as an overseer.
The distance between Miletus and Ephesus is about 80 kms. Perhaps only fit, male elders made the journey. But we can’t rule out that there were no women present just because Paul specifies that men will arise from the group of elders and lead people astray.
In fact, the most prominent heretics in Ephesus were men: Hymenaeus, Philetus, Alexander, and Cerinthus. And some of them seemed to have been locals.
This article provides a brief overview of church life in the first century: https://margmowczko.com/the-first-century-church-and-the-ministry-of-women/
And this article looks at the role of overseers: https://margmowczko.com/manage-household-1-timothy-34/
I really enjoy this article! The female elders in 1 Timothy 5:1-2 are interesting. I do have a question, though. I know in 1 Clement 44, Clement implies that the apostles only appointed men as bishops and deacons. If there were some female elders, or even female deacons, why do you think Clement would say the apostles appointed only men? I also know that Didache 15:1 says something similar, and that Ignatius-who is said to have known the apostle John- and others imply that only men were bishops and deacons. If there were some women bishops or deacons, why do you think it was so quickly lost in the early church after the New Testament period?
Hi Taylor,
I am as certain as I can be that Ignatius, and perhaps the author of 1 Clement also, would have been totally against women as elders (presbyters) and deacons, let alone women being overseers (bishops). The ministry terminology in the Didache is a bit different and broader, but it wouldn’t surprise me if only men are in view. The authors and communities behind these writings may have only known men as recognised and official leaders.
On the other hand, I am also fairly certain that there were women ministers in the church at Smyrna even if Ignatius avoids using “official” ministry terms, though he does use “widows/virgins” in a somewhat official sense. And we know there were respected female prophets in several second-century several churches (e.g., Ammia of Philadelphia). Women could also be patrons and be influential, but without official titles. I suspect that in the second century, there were smaller or remote communities and house churches that were looked after by women, but they are not noticed or mentioned by Ignatius, etc.
I think there are three reasons women were mostly squeezed out of official leadership ministries by the end of the first century.
1. As churches grew larger, more organisation was required. Because society was patriarchal, people tended to look to men, and not women, for leadership. So it became the norm that men became the regional leaders (bishops) as well as leaders of local churches. Also, most house church hosts and leaders had always been male, as 5 out of every 6 Roman households had a man as the senior figure or householder.
2. Paul welcomed charismatic speech and the spontaneous participation of men and women in church gatherings. There was also an excited expectation that Jesus would soon return. But this excitement and the gifts of the spirit waned, and church meetings became more settled and formal. It seems “ordinary” men and women did not have the same opportunities to contribute, minister, or lead in these more formal meetings that were led by official ministers.
3. Before the Gospels and Acts were written, the stories and teachings of Jesus were retold orally. Women, as well as men, who had been witnesses of Jesus’ ministry, Pentecost, the early days of the church, and the ministries of Peter, John, and Paul could tell their stories. But once these stories were written down, women’s voices were no longer needed.
I agree with you that women were presbyters or elders in the early church because of the apostle Junia and because of the record of the local council of Laodicea prohibiting the ordination of female presbyters. However, I at the moment can’t see a convincing case for believing that they were mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:1-2.
In the SBLG the words for the possible female presbyters have the same symbol structure but they have different little symbols above the main symbols compared with the presbyters mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:17. What are those called? They are the opposite of subscripts because they’re on top of the letter. but still, it’s close is there a way to no which interpretation is correct based on context?
Hi Dana, Junia was a missionary. There’s no evidence she was a presbyter of a local church.
Do you mean acute accents?
For comparison:
The nominative plural masculine for “elders/ presbyters” is πρεσβύτεροι. This is the form in 1 Timothy 5:17.
The form in 1 Timothy 5:1 is πρεσβυτέρῳ (dative singular masculine).
The nominative plural feminine form of this same word is πρεσβύτεραι.
The form in 1 Timothy 5:2 is πρεσβυτέρας (accusative plural feminine).
These are all forms of the one word, and the accents do alter the meaning in the slightest. Compare the different forms found in the New Testament, which includes πρεσβυτέρας, here: https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4245.htm
The context of 1 Timothy 5:1-2 is not church leadership, but this doesn’t mean the elders mentioned in these two verses, or at least some of them, weren’t church leaders of some kind.
I agree that the vast majority of the time this word means presbyter, however this word is also used to refer to people who are comparatively older than the other subject under discussion. For example, the older son in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. How apart from context and the study of the other words in the sentence in question are we to know whether Paul means men and women who are older than Timothy or male and female presbyters?
Moreover, I agree with you that this word is highly associated with leadership. Even in Titus 2:1-5 there are elders, and I am sure you know better than me the renderings of their Greek designations. They are called by a different but related word. These people are definitely ministerial leaders they may even be considered on par with the overseers/bishops. However, they are clearly not presbyters.
Paul repeats the same pattern that you mentioned above in Titus 2 when he addresses the elders (not presbyters) first and then the younger Christians who are also are charged with responsibility for the mission of Christ.
“How apart from context and the study of the other words in the sentence in question are we to know whether Paul means men and women who are older than Timothy or male and female presbyters?”
Context is the only way to distinguish if the elders are (1) simply older people, (2) older people with some standing in the community, or (3) official leaders of some kind. However, the context isn’t clear in some verses in 1 Timothy and Titus. “Official leaders” with the sense “presbyters” later took on, may not be the sense in any of the occurrences of the word presbyteros in the Pastorals.
Just to clarify, is Paul really saying we can’t rebuke an older person simply because they’re older? Do we have to be servile and before people who teach nonsense and need a dressing down, placating their ego? Paul tells to timothy ppl shouldn’t look down at him for his age, so isn’t age-based honor irrelevant? Thanks.
Hi Jacob, you asked “is Paul really saying we can’t rebuke an older person simply because they’re older?”
For two main reasons, the answer to that question is a definite “no.”
First, Paul was writing to Timothy. He was not writing to us. We can and should draw principles from the Bible, but we need to recognise who the original audience was, and why the book or letter was written, before we can determine an application for ourselves.
Second, all Bible verses and phrases must be read in context, and Paul does not simply say “Do not rebuke an older man (or, elder)” in 1 Timothy 5:1-2. He immediatey goes on to tell Timothy what he should do instead, “but exhort him as if he were your father …”
In many cultures today, such as some Asian cultures, it is considered very rude for a younger person to rebuke an older person. Age-based honour was also a part of Greco-Roman culture.
Honouring people is always a good idea. And respecting our elders is reasonable social norm even for westerners. However, ageism, like racism and sexism, should not be part of the community of Jesus-followers, the church (cf. Acts 2:17).
The Greek of 1 Timothy 5:1-2 somewhats supports this, as the meanings of the verbs for “rebuke” and “exhort” apply to older and younger men and older and younger women. The CSB translates these two verses with careful accuracy.
The Greek verbs for “rebuke” (a subjunctive verb) and “exhort” (an imperative verb), which occur in the first phrase, are the only verbs (or action words) in 1 Timothy 5:1-2. (Many English translations add other verbs which unfortunateky obscure Paul’s meanings.)
There is nothing whatsoever in Paul’s statement in 1 Timothy 5:1-2 that suggests Timothy should be servile and put up with nonsense from anyone of any age.
Timothy shouldn’t rebuke any church member, but instead should exhort, or encourage, them as though they are beloved and respected family members.
Finally, all biblical intructions need to be understood and implemented with wisdom and commonsense. And as Christians, they need to be understood and implemented with love.
Oh, i get it l now. We’re supposed to treat each other as family. I have another question: was it right for Paul to publicly rebuke Peter?
Remind me again where Paul publicly rebukes Peter? But seriously, how would I know?
I know Paul had a disagreement with Peter, but I wasn’t there. I don’t know all the steps Paul had taken in resolving the matter.
And may I say again that we need to use commonsense in understanding and implementing instructions and advice given in the Bible.
Jacob, your comments are not really on topic. My blog isn’t a place to ask random questions.
[…] The Greek word presbyteroi, often translated as “old men” or “older men” in English translations of Acts 2:17 does not necessarily exclude women. Presbyteroi can simply mean “older people.” The word can and sometimes does refer to a group that includes women. (More on this word in early Christian texts, here.) […]
[…] It is fair to say that men were more likely to be bishops and elders than women. Yet Paul mentions women elders (using the feminine of presbyteroi) in his first letter sent to Timothy in Ephesus. Priscilla seems to have been a leader in the house church she hosted with her husband in Ephesus and, later, in her house church in Rome. Was Priscilla an elder? […]
“The fact is that the feminine of presbyteroi (“elders”) does occur in the New Testament, and it occurs in other ancient Jewish and Christian writings and inscriptions where it refers to woman elders.”
Sorry, but this is so very, very sloppy – obviously driven by a precommitment to egalitarianism.
In 1 Timothy 5, Paul writes, “Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, the older women [Gr. πρεσβυτέρας/’presbuteras’] as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.” (vv. 1-2, NASB)
It is patently obvious to any unbiased reader that here Paul does /not/ have in mind church ministry-offices, but simply the root meaning of “elder” as referring to an /older/ person, as opposed to a /younger/ person. He explicitly draws a contrast between older and younger men, and between older and younger women.
He is /not/ talking about the ministry-office labeled “elder.”
AJ, Did you read the article before commenting?
I worded this article carefully and avoided overstatements. And I’ve linked to sources that cite and discuss ancient Jewish and Christian writings and inscriptions that mention women elders. This is hardly sloppy.
Which statements are inaccurate or sloppy? If you reply, I’d appreciate it if you could avoid overstatements and avoid making hasty personal judgements. You don’t know me.
[…] [25] For example, a second-century AD inscription from Smyrna mentions a woman named Rufina who was a synagogue ruler. The inscription reads: “Rufina, a Jewess synagogue ruler [archesynagōgos], built this tomb for her freed slaves and the slaves raised in her household. No one else has a right to bury anyone here.” (CII 741; IGR IV. 1452) See Bernadette J. Brooten, Women Leaders in the Ancient Synagogue: Inscriptional Evidence and Background, Brown Judaic Studies, 36 (Atlanta and Chico, CA: Scholars Press, 1982) (More on leading women in synagogues and churches in Asia Minor here.) […]
Hi Marg
Something I’ve puzzled about since Kevin Giles published ‘What the bible actually teaches on women’. He states/assumes that the elders referred to in 1 Peter 5 are men. He doesn’t explain why. You are both Greek scholars, I am not! I really would like your view to be correct, ie that there is no indication of gender being specified here. So, I was puzzled to read his view. I know you are not a mind reader, but is there some other info or context that might help us understand why he reads it this way? I read the NICNT on 1 Peter by Peter Davids but he made no comment on this gender question…
thanks!!
Hi Allan, There’s nothing in the Greek of 1 Peter 5 to indicate the sex of the elders. I’m not saying the elders Peter addressed were definitely men and women. Perhaps they were all men. We simply aren’t told their sex.
The fact that the Greek word for elders (presbyteroi) is juxtaposed in 1 Peter 5 with a word for younger people (neōteroi) that is also not indicative of sex, may lend support to the idea that the presbyteroi could have been male and female. (See 1 Peter 5:5.)
However, it is safe to assume that most church elders, especially those with oversight, were men, and that there would have been perhaps many first-century churches where all the official church elders were men.
I wish we had more evidence-based information on this, but I’m reasonably certain that at least some churches in the 50-70s AD had women, like Priscilla, Apphia, Nympha, the lady in 2 John, and the woman in 1 Peter 5:13, who functioned as elders in their congregations.
It probably won’t help, but I have a bit more on 1 Peter 5:5 and “She who is in Babylon” here:
https://margmowczko.com/category/1-peter/
And I have more on the NT women I’ve mentioned here:
https://margmowczko.com/nt-women-church-leaders-articles/
thankyou!! appreciate your response, that’s helpful, makes sense
In Philip Payne’s newer book “The Bible vs. Biblical Womanhood” he dedicates most of a chapter to Titus 2 where he insists it is referring to church elders (both male and female) as opposed to old men and old women. I’ll do my best to paraphrase why and how he believes that.
First, he shows that G4245 presbytero can be an older man (1 Tim 5:1) or a church office (Titus 1:5). Then he shows that G4246 presbytes can be an older man (Luke 1:18) or a church office (Titus 2:2, as well as Lam 4:16 LXX). His point being that the words are used fairly interchangeably.
Titus 1:5-9 lays out a list of requirements for the elders to be ordained in Crete. Verses 10-16 go off on a tangent about the people of Crete, including those of the circumcision, and how awful they are (aka they are a big reason that elders are needed in Crete). Titus 2:1 circles back to talking about elders and specifically what Titus is to do about the situation (no chapter breaks in the original manuscripts of course). Titus 2:1-5 “But you (Titus), speak that which becomes sound doctrine, that the elders be sober, grave, self-controlled, sound in faith, love and endurance. That the female elders likewise, in their reverent behavior, not slanderers or addicted to much wine, but teachers of good, so that they may disciple the young women…so that the word of God will not be blasphemed.”
All but two of the dozen or so descriptions in Titus 2:2 and Titus 2:3 are found in either 1 Tim 3:2-7 (requirements of overseers) or Titus 1:5-9 (requirements of elders). I’ve spent quite a bit of time matching these up, and it would be hard for me to see them as unrelated.
Regarding the female elders in verse 3, Paul uses two interesting words. First, he uses the adjective G2412 hieroprepes, from G2413 hieros, usually translated as reverent. G2411 hieron, which is also from G2413 hieros, means the temple at Jerusalem all 71 times in the New Testament. Because of this connection to the temple, Dr. Payne thinks of the word hieroprepes in verse 3 as being more ‘priestlike’ than ‘reverent.’
Second, he uses the noun G2688 katastema, from the verb G2525 kathistemi, which is the same exact word Paul uses for “ordain” back in Titus 1:5. So, based on these two words in verse 3, I’m curious if it’s possible to translate them as “priestlike ordination” rather than “reverent behavior.” (?)
Next, he points out that not all old men will be sound in faith and endurance, as mentioned in Titus 2:2. Some old men are brand new believers and therefore would not be sound in faith. Because of this, along with the points mentioned above, he believes church elder makes more sense than old men in Titus 2:2.
Since Titus 2:3 says “that the female elders likewise (G5615 hosautos)” he connects all the requirements in verse 2 to the female elders (there are no verbs in verse 3, they have been added by translators). Similarly, not all old women are able to be teachers of what is good, so he thinks elder makes more sense.
Finally, he goes on to say that there is a third group of elders (young men) in Titus 6. I think I’m seeing that verse differently than him. He believes the likewise (hosautos) connects it to verses 2 and 3, but I read the hosautos as connecting to the teaching of self-control in the prior verse. The female elders are to teach young women self-control, and now he’s telling Titus (who is an elder) to teach the young men self-control. Whether this final group is young elders or simply young men (neoterous) being taught self-control by male elders, I’m not sure it makes a difference. The main point being argued is that Paul is describing female elders in Verse 3.
I know this is a lot, but I would love to hear your thoughts on all this. I don’t believe I had ever read someone argue that before from Titus 2. Thanks, Marg 🙂
Hi Jill, As a follow up to our Facebook conversation, note that the adjective semnos is used for male and female diakonoi in 1 Timothy 3:8 and 11 (“worthy of respect” in the CSB), and for the elder men in Titus 2:2 (“worthy of respect” in the CSB), while the related noun semnotēs is used for overseers in 1 Timothy 3:4 (“dignity” in the CSB).
Semnotēs also occurs in Titus 2, in Paul’s intruction about Timothy’s teaching ministry: “Make yourself an example of good works with integrity and dignity in your teaching” (Titus 2:7 CSB).
LSJ have “revered, august, holy” as the primary definitions of semnos. (See here.) Semnos is believed to be derived from the verb sebomai which means “to revere” or “to worship.”
Hieroprepēs, used for the elder women in Titus 2:3, and semnos has some overlap of senses. LSJ define hieroprepēs as “beseeming a sacred place, person, or matter.” (See here.) The Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary gives a practically identical definition, “appropriate to a holy place, person, or matter; holy”
Hieroprepēs, the same word, is translated as “saintly (RSV), “dignified” (NRSV), and “devout” (NRSVue; CEB) in 4 Maccabees 9:25.
Katastēma means “condition, state, bearing, conduct …” (See LSJ here.) I’m reluctant to read more into this word.
It is possible that the elder women in Titus 2:3 held a recognised position in the church at Crete. What they are intructed to teach, however, was pretty ordinary in the ancient world. I’ve written about the qualities listed in Titus 2:4-5 here:
https://margmowczko.com/busy-at-home-how-does-titus-24-5-apply-today/
Hi Marg. You’ve asked me to push back before if I don’t agree, so I will quickly summarize why I still believe Titus 2 and 3 are talking about church elders, and not just old men and women.
1. Titus 1:5-9 gives requirements for church elders. The next 7 verses describe the situation in Crete that requires church elders. Titus 2:1 (no chapter breaks) picks right back up with what Titus is supposed to teach these church elders, namely…
2. That the male elders be (present infinitive) G3524 nephalios (1 Tim 3:2), G4586 semnos (1 Tim 3:4), G4998 sophron (1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:8), G5198 hygiaino (Titus 1:9) in G4102 pistis (Titus 1:9).
3. That the female elders likewise. This “likewise” encompasses all of the requirements of verse 2 since there is no verb in Titus 2:3.
Yes, Titus adds some instruction about the female elders discipling young women in home life, but that is in addition to all of the verse 2 requirements, which are tied extensively to the 1 Tim 3:2-7 and Titus 1:5-9 lists of requirements for elders/overseers.
4. In Paul’s additional requirements for female elders just mentioned, he uses additional words that are related to the two lists of elder/overseer requirements. G1228 (1 Tim 3:6-7), G3631 (1 Tim 3:3, Titus 1:7), G2567 (1 Tim 3:2).
5. The root word for G2688 katastema (used in verse 3) is G2525 kathistemi, which is the exact same word Paul uses for “ordain” in Titus 1:5. I have a hard time seeing that as a coincidence.
6. Canon 11 of the Council of Laodicea (circa 360) banned the formal ordination of women elders. “It is not allowed for those women who are called presbytidas to be ordained in the churches.” Presbytidas is the same word Paul uses to describe female elders in verse 3.
Thanks for hearing me out on this, Marg. 🙂
What did you disagree with in my previous comment? I didn’t think I said anything that disagreed with your points. I think we agree much more than we disagree, especially on the major points.
But there are a couple of point in your recent comment that I don’t agree with. Katastēma and kathistēmi share the same etymology: kata (“down”) + histēmi (“to stand, to place”). However, the words are distinct. The abstract noun katastēma has a limited and consistent range of meanings and usages. The verb kathistēmi has a broader range of meanings and usages. Neither word helps us to understand the other word. Etymology doesn’t help either. As always, usage determines meaning.
Katastēma occurs in Josephus’s Antiquities 15.7.5 §236 where it refers to Mariamne’s “calm, or firm, manner” (ἀτρεμαίῳ τῷ καταστήματι). It is translated somewhat loosely as “with an unshaken firmness of mind” by Whiston.
It occurs in Plutarch’s, Marcellus 23.5, where it describes Marcellus as “τοῦ συνήθους μεταβαλὼν καταστήματος.” This is translated by Perrin as “allowing no change in his accustomed demeanour.”
It occurs twice in the Letter of Aristeas. In section 122, in a discussion on the virtues of the Jewish translators, it says that “they strived for a moderate course of conduct” (τὸ μέσον ἐζηλωκότες κατάστημα).
In section 165, in a strange comment about the reproduction of weasels (an unclean animal), it says “it has defiling, or destructive, characteristic/ behaviour” (ἔχει λυμαντικὸν κατάστημα).
Katastēma is translated as “state” in 3 Maccabees 5:45 (CEB & NRSV) “for the crazy state/ behaviour” of drunk elephants: είς κατάστεμα μανιώδες. (See here.)
These texts date to around the mid-second century BC to the first century AD, and all but one were written by Jewish authors like the author of Titus.
I don’t know of an ancient text where the noun katastēma is used with a sense of appointment or ordination. And I don’t know of a Greek-English lexicon that gives a definition of appointment or ordination for katastēma.
English translations of Titus 2:3 render katastēma accurately as behaviour, demeanour, deportment, etc. (Bible Gateway)
A quick comment on your statement, “This ‘likewise’ encompasses all of the requirements of verse 2 since there is no verb in Titus 2:3.”
Paul sometimes makes verbs do double and even triple duty and doesn’t write them a second or third time. This is not unusual with Greek. Paul, and also Peter, sometimes do this using the conjunction “likewise.” But it’s a mistake to think that just because there’s no verb written down, and “likewise” is used, that everything (“encompasses all”) mentioned in previous verses applies to following “likewise” verses. It doesn’t work that way. Paul was not giving the elder women additional values to live by in verse 3ff.
I’ve written about elided verbs and “likewise” here (with a long postscript):
https://margmowczko.com/likewise-women-likewise-husbands/
Importantly, the verb “to be” is often implied in Greek without being stated. So I wouldn’t say a verb is missing in Titus 2:3: εἶναι (einai) is implicit.
Thanks, Marg. To answer your first question, you were referring to elders as “elder men” and female elders as “elder women” so I was understanding that as you didn’t agree that verse 2 and 3 describe church elders.
Thank you for the clarification on katastema. That seems pretty clear. Strongs shows the root word of katastema as kathistemi (ordain), so it seemed a logical jump that they are related.
As for elided verbs, I am familiar. I believe that 1 Peter 3:7 elides the phrase [submit to your own wives]. It seemed a logical jump that this instance of hosautos must be referring to the list just given in verse 2, since Paul did not restate einai. How would one know for certain that Paul elided einai and isn’t saying that the female elders likewise need to be the same as the list given in verse 2? I guess that question is one that would be helpful to me if you could answer.
After all is said, the way the passage reads (without the chapter break), it seems apparent to me that Paul is telling Titus what to teach the elders (both male and female) that he is ordaining “in every city.” Also, the number of Greek words used in verse 2 that match the two requirements lists given for elders and overseers seems unlikely to be coincidental. We’ve seen Paul write this way before. For all the 1 Tim 3 requirements, we see Paul encouraging women elsewhere in the Pastorals, including 1 Tim 2 and 1 Tim 5, to do the same things, with same or similar Greek wording.
Thanks, Marg.